Season 5, Episode 11: Life as a Paralegal with Chloe Marie Bloor

Our Episode Transcripts are produced by Descript. Some words/dialogue may not be transcribed with 100% accuracy.

Ellie: [00:00:00] Thank you so much for joining us on Law Talks today, and to start off the episode could you please describe your legal career so far?

Chloe: My legal career is probably not like the most conventional because I didn't leave school and, uh, goes straight into like sixth form and then university and go to law and that kind of thing. I actually started in, in health and social care and but really kind of one of those things where, oh, you know, I'm actually gonna go back to university.

And because I was really passionate about law and I used to like, love chatting towards that were happening in current events and things like that. So at 28 I decided to start the Open University so that. That's where my legal career started in the sense that I [00:01:00] plunge and decided that I was gonna go back to, uh, university.

And I chose the open university because I needed to be able to work. But obviously there's, there's lots ways of, of getting into but that was the one that made the most.

So I think it was, I think it was probably my second year or maybe end of my first year. And I kind of thought I need to look for some work experience because my, I mean, I know like it's incredibly difficult for a lot for everybody to get into. But I was like, I, I really wanted to find some. A bit of a, I guess, a taste of what it was gonna be like.

So I actually volunteered at the law center where I work now to give like a bit of back to, to give a break about the law center. It actually was [00:02:00] founded in, in 1989. And there was like four workers, um, the time. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And then. Working there. So I, I just thought that was quite an interesting, it's, I imagine the same with a lot of law centers because they are all over and obviously really helpful and, and important part of the legal system.

So yeah, I, I started working there, uh, volunteering there, sorry. And. Kind of getting to grips with the kind of areas of law that they practice and mm-hmm. Just kind of I actually started out taking feedback and evaluation, so it was like you knew the cases that we, uh, that they had closed and, and like getting some feedback on how mm-hmm.

We'd done and, and, and that kind of thing. And if people were happy with the service. And then, yeah. And then a job came up. As a paralegal in their homeless prevention team. And [00:03:00] that's kind of how I got into, um. It to being a paralegal. I got the job. So yeah. Fantastic. That was a bit of a mouthful.

Ellie: Not at all. Not at all. Thank you. It's, yeah, it's really, um, it's always great to hear from people 'cause I think it's probably, I mean, I feel like it, that that's what it seems like. Everyone always knows what they're gonna do and like, knows that they're gonna go into law. But actually it feels like so many people kind of get work.

Well work in a different area first and then maybe like later on in life. Um. After university or like when they go back to university, decide that they want to pursue a legal career. So yeah, it's really interesting hearing about that change. And one thing that really stood out to me is there is so much talk about how difficult it's to get work experience at uni, at university and, and that kind of volunteering side of things.

So is typically at your law center, do they usually take on students? Um, have they got kind of a, a pathway for doing that or is it something that you kind of just like called up or visited and inquired about?

Chloe: So we, um, we [00:04:00] actually have somebody who is employed specifically to guide the work experience or volunteering.

And we actually, we have like come and do work experience for a set amount of time. Or you can, it can be a long-term thing. So it, you know, sometimes people kind of get people from, from lots of different for lots of different reasons. So some people maybe want to do some volunteering because they retired or like they work in a different field, but maybe they work and they, they just wanna, because we have generally have people in our assessment team a lot of the time, so they would be.

So how it works is somebody will call us with an inquiry. And if it's an area of law that we know we can help with, um, they'll be put on a list to be called back by our assessment team. And our assessment team will, uh, get a bit more information about the case and that kind [00:05:00] of and then they will put it down for a call.

Appropriate area. So for example um, and we have mm-hmm. Callbacks like four times a week. And then what we'll do is either offer one off advice. If it's just something that we can only really give, like, that only needs, advice, advice on or we can mm-hmm. Maybe refer on to other places like citizens Advice and things like that.

And if it's a case that if it's something that we know we can take on as a case then we will set up like a face-to-face with one of our housing solicitors or maybe one of our, or one of the paralegals if it's a case of we just need to take some instructions.

Ellie: Great. Thank you.

Chloe: Yeah, because I've gone off on a tangent there. No, but, um, there's, there's lots of properties for work experience or long-term volunteering, um, which is I think really great and, [00:06:00] mm-hmm. It, it is just we, we provide legal aid, so primarily what we offer is legal aid. But I think even if you are private practice eventually, it's still really great experience.

Ellie: Yeah, definitely. Thank you for, um. Kind of outlining. I think it's really. Interesting that you have like a whole area dedicated to work experience and, and bringing people on. So you spoke a little bit about how in some cases, uh, it might be like the case, depending on what it is about it might be handed to a paralegal.

So that leads really nicely into kind of my next focus. And I guess quite a big part of this interview is discussing like the role as a par of a paralegal and what it's like working as a paralegal. So, um, yeah, could you describe a little bit, kind of what your role. At the, at the law center and yeah, what the kind of role entails.

And yeah, I guess again, you've talked about your different areas. So specifically to you, what you kind of cover.

Chloe: So I mean the law center itself covers [00:07:00] like a variety of different areas. But the department that I work in, um, would, would be the housing department. Specifically my role is, is homelessness prevention.

So what we, what they have is like a sub project almost. Um, so I guess it would be for things like, because as a, well, we we're not licensed to practice law as such, but the local authorities, we'll sometimes refer people into us or it'll be something like we get through assessment. We will take on cases that are maybe helping people to get on the housing register.

We'll sometimes assist the solicitors, um, with like section 20 ones. But that wouldn't be, advice as such that would be more taking instructions and feeding back to the solicitors. A section 21 is a no no fault eviction for a bit of [00:08:00] reference. And, um, I think ma the main job role that we have are like applying for funding for maybe.

Say, um, people who are struggling to pay their rent. So it's that like it's early intervention to kind of prevent homelessness. So it all ties in with housing. But that's a lot of the cases that like paralegals would take on. So it wouldn't necessarily be practicing law, but you would definitely, you definitely find out a lot about the law surrounding it because.

You work quite closely with like, a solicitor will be supervising you if you'll be drafting pleadings. Probably laying out like arguments for clients as well as doing like billing is a lot of, of what I have to do as a paralegal. I think it's our role to keep the clients informed and [00:09:00] help them to.

Get to a place where they can kind of, they feel comfortable enough to talk about, you know, any issues that they're having or their cases and things like that. Because I think an important part of the role of, as paralegal is that we will often be the person that keeps them informed about what's happening in their case.

So, um, having that good, um. Rapport with clients is, is really important.

Ellie: Thank you. That was really clear. And, um, as what comes across as obviously you're working really specific area, so I was wondering, did you find that your kind of prior work experience at the law center as a volunteer was really crucial to then your next step, um, in your career as a paralegal?

Do you think if it was something that you came straight from university, it would've been kind of a harder transition?

Chloe: I think, [00:10:00] I think when you are working closely within a team it's really good to have kind of, um, a feel for the, for the team before and, and I guess also to get to know, they're sort of like software systems and things like that. Like sounds really small, but actually I think it gives you a lot of commenting of going for, for an interview.

But I also think what was great about volunteering was particularly in the, the sort of like assessment, the different kinds of cases are coming through. Mm-hmm. And you definitely like, because a lot of the, the job for the volunteering was, um, phone calls, so you definitely get mm-hmm. Particularly if maybe, like you say, you haven't got any kind of prior experience on, um, like mm-hmm.

Speaking to, to people. Because I'm the first, I'll be really honest, the first couple of phone calls I [00:11:00] did, I was really flustered and I forgot the telephone number and all those kinds of things. Of course. Yeah. Um, so it definitely gave me really good practice in actually speaking to clients. I think also you know, when you, when you a client comes across and it's, you know, something that obviously is really upsetting for them or, or quite, um.

Well, it's obviously it's gonna be personal for them. They, I think it's knowing how to manage the situation as well. Because people come in and, and, you know, they're, they're. Emotions are gonna be high and particularly, or, you know, somebody's a threat. Mm-hmm. Homelessness. So I think having that volunteer experience really gave me the tools to, to, to sort of manage clients' expectations, but also, I guess their, their emotions, if that's the right word, to help them.

Mm-hmm. I think when you are the first port of [00:12:00] call, which I, I guess the assessment team would be the, the people that they were speaking, that they're going to be speaking to first.

I think it's giving them that reassurance that, you know, we can't guarantee that we, we will be able to solve the problem, but we're gonna try and help.

Ellie: Yeah, definitely. And I can see how they, that, I guess that skill development really kind of linked in from your volunteering to, to getting the job. And, and you spoke about as a volunteer then the paralegal job kind of came available and on previous episodes we've spoken a lot about, you know, different applications and how people do it.

So I was sort of wondering what was the process of applying for the role as a paralegal? What was kind of required how lengthy was the process?

Chloe: So I remember I had the initial application process which is kind of, I guess would be standard, you know, what's your experience, do you have any qualifications?

And I remember having to do a lot of the sort of transferable skills because of course, I, I didn't have [00:13:00] any background experience in, in law. But I guess from my previous job role, I, I did have. Face-to-face contact with, um, people and, and, um, I think I remember kind of talking about that in, in the application.

My job role prior to that was support, like a support worker. So I, I remember kind of trying to tie that in with the job role in terms of, you know abiding by the safeguarding act and, and things like that. And then I also, I remember when I, I went for the interview we had a scenario, and I'm really trying to remember it for you.

I think it was, it, I, I remember it was a client, Kim. And I think that they were a threat of home and I had to, you know, do like what? Okay, so what would be the first thing that you would do? You know, they've, they've got children and they've been told that they need to leave their property today and what would be the sort of next [00:14:00] step?

And I think there were, they sort of outlined like in order from one to maybe six or something. And. I won't lie. I, I really probably, well, I, I definitely don't think I got every single one of them in the exact right order. Um, but I remember being really, really maybe focusing a little bit too much on, like calming the the client down. So I remember, I think I said something like, you know, I would take her and make her a cup of tea first. Because that was kind of like my first thought. And I think that's, that is something I think I, I think is really quite not overlooked, but I. Because when you are managing these or trying to help manage these stressful situations, I think it's really important to kind of get clients to a place where they [00:15:00] can talk to you, like without rationally.

So it might, I think it, it's really important to, to make them feel comfortable and, and, and safe. And like they, they know that what they're saying to you is, you know, is gonna be taken seriously. So I think I really focused on that because I guess that was kind of my, my background. And then I did a little bit of research.

I remember I, I knew from volunteering that obviously they, the different areas of law that they kind of offered. And I had kind of, I don't know. I, I had a rough off of like where clients would be referred to, but I didn't have sort of any knowledge of what happened, like once they were referred into those, those cases.

So I think a lot of it was kind of thinking, thinking on your feet and, and maybe just, I, I was quite honest as well. I think I, I remember kind of saying, [00:16:00] um, I really, I remember saying in the interview like, I know I don't have the most experience, but. I really will kind of try my hardest and, and apply myself to, to the job role and, um, you know, talking about good time management.

So yeah, actually I, I do remember, and I think every, you know, I think everybody is, is the same. With interviews, I remember being incredibly kind of flustered and a bit like. Yeah. Nervous.

Ellie: Definitely. Yeah. I think that's a kind of universal experience of, of an intu no matter what it's, what it's for. But I guess, yeah. Now since we're reflecting on your, um, kind of, uh, job process application, looking back, what would be sort of your main advice for, for anyone who is currently applying, applying to apply for, uh, work as a paralegal?

Like, how do you think would they could best prepare.

Chloe: So I [00:17:00] definitely think, to, to first research the company that you're gonna be applying to. And I guess if they, if there's new opportunities to, to volunteer. Although I, I really think that if there's nothing kind of obvious on, on their website and, um.

You, you could always write to them, maybe see if there is an opportunity to volunteer there first. I appreciate that, you know, that that's quite, quite time consuming. When, when, but even if you can kind of services maybe like for an afternoon, a week I think that that looks really good. But also I think when applying for jobs, um, it sounds really kind of.

I, I think reading the job spec is, is really important and I remember going through the job spec and kind of picking out every little bit and going, okay, so [00:18:00] I can apply this to this aspect of my life and I can apply this bit to this aspect of my life. And trying to kind of. Look at old jobs and, and say, okay, well I didn't do this exact thing, but maybe I could use something that I used to do as an example of how I could do this.

Keep applying as well. Like I think it's really disheartening because I remember applying to a couple of other places for jobs and it just kind of, you know, you don't, maybe don't hear anything back or, and, and it can be really frustrating, but don't kind of lose. Momentum just keep applying for, for anything and everything really that, that you think you'd be suitable for.

And I think you, you know, you will eventually get somewhere with it. It's, it's really hard 'cause I, I've got friends that I've kind of, applying for training contracts, mm-hmm. A while back. And I know that's not something that I've had to do yet, but I know it'll be something coming for me. And I know that that can be [00:19:00] really disheartening because there's just not as many out there as perhaps needed.

Um. I think if there is just one, one thing that I kind of, bit of advice I can offer is that while maybe in the meantime, while you're waiting to, to get a job or to get that training contract to just keep asking like, is there any volunteer opportunities? Can I, can I come in and do some work experience?

And I really feel like once you're kind of, experienced in maybe that company and the software that they use and how their systems work. I feel like it does give you maybe a little bit of a, a, a shoe in for, for things like that because you, you know, you kind of already working there, although you're not technically working there to not be scared to ask for help.

Like, I think that's a really important one. It can be quite daunting, as I [00:20:00] said starting that, that job role because while I, I say it's, you know, you're not technically, um, practicing law in the sense of like I solicitor what you are entering. The profession as you like starting point for entering the, the profession.

And I think also nobody is expecting you to know what you're doing. Like it's definitely one of those jobs that you learn while you're doing it. Certainly in my experience. Um, and I think. There's, there's not really, I think the preparation is to go in really with, with an open mind. And of course, you know, your law degree will give you that little bit of, of knowledge.

But if, like, for example, um, you are going into housing law like the kind of housing law that we, um. Practice at the law center. There's not really a lot [00:21:00] in your degree about that, so it's definitely something that, you know, hopefully you, you'll pick up as you're doing it. And I think it's also that thing of like the solicitors hopefully, or the barristers or, or wherever you end up working, they were you once.

And so I think definitely sort of drawing on their experience and kind of using them as a a bit of a mentor, for lack of a better word. Is, is definitely some good advice and something that I found, um, really valuable. My supervisor, um, who is also a housing solicitor, uh, he started at the open University like me, so his journey was pretty similar and I found that it's, it's really important to ask as many questions.

There are no silly questions. I think. Um. Particularly in law. And, and so you shouldn't, people shouldn't feel [00:22:00] silly if they don't know the answer to things. And I'm sure that people, you know, wherever they're working would much prefer them to ask.

Ellie: Yeah. Thank you. That that's, I think that's really helpful and you, yeah, you're definitely right.

I think one thing that we always hear in that these interviews are, is that, you know, there's a lot of kind of rejection that comes along with kind of trying to enter the, the legal profession. But it's really common and yeah, definitely kind of. Sometimes it's almost a simple thing. It's like the job specification that can be overlooked in like the panic of trying to, trying to get like your dream, dream job.

Um, so yeah. Thank you. That's, that's really helpful. And I wanted to focus now on something like a little bit different, more on the sort of work that you cover. You've spoken about the, like working in homeless, prevent homelessness, prevention so I guess. When you're applying, kind of what attracted you to this area of work.

And previously before the interview and at the start, we talked a little bit about your work to do with Legal aid. So I wanted to focus particularly on, on that

Chloe: it kind of ensures [00:23:00] that people know that their legal rights, people that you know, perhaps don't have, a lot of money. So it gives them access to justice and, and hopefully provides a fair and functioning legal system.

But yeah, so I I think I knew pretty early on actually that I, that I would work in, in social welfare law which. I I, I don't think it's necessarily like everybody has, has to figure that out at the, at the beginning. I, I think there's definitely in, in law particularly, I, I would definitely go with the flow in terms of some people, I think some people know really early on like, I'm gonna work in private practice, or I'm gonna work in social welfare.

I'm gonna work in family, or I'm gonna work in housing. And, and that's, that's absolutely fine and that's great, but if you are not sure, I would definitely advise kind of going with the flow. So while I, I can't, I, I, yeah, I think I, I was really attracted to social welfare [00:24:00] law in terms of what legal aid offers people.

So it's obviously that, that access to justice that people might not otherwise have an opportunity to have their voices heard or you know I, I guess. Raise disputes and things. But certainly for, for me I, yeah, so I, I think I knew that I wanted to work in social welfare a lot. So then I kind of went through this whole thing of like, so where offers that?

And I'll be really honest that the law center was one of the first places I actually looked. Um, and because obviously I knew that they, they had like a volunteer program. I, I just kind of, when they said because it was actually, funnily enough, it was my supervisor now, so I, the, the person that supervises me now was the person that came to me and said there.

This job. And, you know, why don't [00:25:00] you apply for it? It's obviously not guaranteed, but you know, I, I think you'd be good for it. Sorry. I think you'd be good at it. And I did. And I guess that's kind of why because I, I didn't know, I didn't know that I would want to work in homeless prevention until I did.

I. But the opportunity came along and I was like, I, I kind of felt like, well, I need to go for this, and I think everything is experienced. So it hasn't happened to me fortunately, but if I had maybe got the job and thought, actually this really isn't the area, for me, it was experience as a paralegal that I could then use and go on to, to apply for something else.

I, if I wanted to.

Ellie: Thank you. And yeah, I think that. Is, although it's clear that you, you have a real interest in the, the area, I think it's very common [00:26:00] that, um, people don't necessarily know what area of law they want to work in until they've experienced it and seen whether they, they've enjoyed it. Um, particularly since there seems to be such a difference from studying an area and actually working in it.

There's a real kind of distinction between that. And yeah, as, I mean, this episode's a real kind of insight into, I guess, life as a paralegal. So I was wondering what would you say kind of the main challenges are, um, of being a paralegal and I guess for, for people interested in those kind of roles, what they should be aware of?

Chloe: I guess, well, a big challenge is not challenges such, but I guess one thing I guess is that you know the law, but you can't practice it. And it's knowing, it's, it's having that kind of, with, with a client sometimes.

You'll think, oh, I know the answer to this, but you, you have to be really careful and make sure that everything is run past the solicitors first.

And that's not a, a challenge as such 'cause it's [00:27:00] embedded into you quite early on. Um, you're told, you know, you need to be really careful not to give legal advice unless it's absolutely. You know, passed through a, a solicit. So, but that can be a challenge, I guess in the sense of you've, you've almost, I, I don't know what the word is, but you, you, you've got the, the job as a paralegal, but you've still got a way to go.

Mm-hmm. You know, there's still a lot, lot more miles to put in before I guess you can become a solicitor. And then I think one of the big challenges is I think it's not so bad, maybe if you have prior experience, but I think something that I found really daunting was actually all the paperwork.

So filling in things like n 2, 2, 4 forms, which was like, I had no, no sort of like. Prior knowledge of anything like that. [00:28:00] Um, remembering to take people's names and dates of birth, that was something like I would, I would be writing out notes and, you know, I'd like write all these details down and then I would forget to get their date of birth and their second name.

So that I think. Remembering things like that. I think when you've never worked in law, it, it can be really daunting.

But I guess, I guess a big challenge as well is accepting that you are not gonna be really experiencing in every area of law, like, and, and accepting that because, you know, even as a solicitor, you can't practice.

In every single area, there's just too much. And I guess it, I particularly if like me, when, when I first started, I just wanted to learn everything about everything. Mm-hmm. I think you have to accept [00:29:00] that you're just not gonna be able to do that. And then I guess the challenge would be, like we've said, finding the area.

That you are most passionate about in the area that is right for you. For example, I remember being really wanting to practice in immigration.

And then getting this job in the housing department and realizing that I actually really love housing law. So that for me again, not a challenge, but maybe, those sort of, you think you want to go one way, but you actually end up going another way and that's great and you actually end up enjoying that.

Ellie: Thank you. I think, yeah, it's almost sort of showing, I guess you don't wanna be too set in your, uh, like strict expectation of the way your legal career is gonna go.

'cause you never know what you might enjoy or what kind of might particularly appeal to you when practicing. Um, but thank you. I think that's, um, a mixture of kind of like challenges and just things to be aware of and, [00:30:00] and I guess yeah, be prepared for in the legal profession. Thank you and thank you so much for, for coming on the podcast.

Chloe: No, you're very welcome. Thank you for having me. And, um, I'm sorry if I've rambled on. Not at all. A lot.

Ellie: Not at all. I think it's, uh, really helpful. I mean the way's sort of my, I'm still at university at the moment, but yeah, I would imagine that some point I'll be applying for like paralegal roles and it's really helpful getting insight from someone already in the, in the role.

Chloe: I think the thing is every, every, um. Where you go. I think their definition of a paralegal is gonna be different, you know, what they kind of require of you and, and what you're expected to do. But I guess if I could sum it up, you're essentially assisting the solicitors, mm-hmm. And gaining some, some like insight into what it's gonna be like when, when you qualify, which is always really great.

Ellie: Definitely. Yeah. I think such a large part of prepping seems to be always trying to get more and more insight whether you're [00:31:00] volunteering or, or working.