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Ellie: [00:00:00] In this episode of Law Talks, I'm joined by Elena Meyer, who has just finished studying the BCL at the University of Oxford. Elena discusses her experience studying this world-renowned graduate law course as well as the application process and top tips for managing the workload
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Ellie: Uh, okay. So thank you so much for joining us today and to start off the episode, please could you tell us about your legal education and career?
Elena: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Um, so I started off studying at Durham University where I did my LLB undergraduate degree, which was a wonderful experience.
I can highly recommend, um, doing your undergraduate degree there because it's a wonderful community, a wonderful little town. And I very much enjoyed my experience there. And then straight after that, I ended up going to Oxford to undertake the BCL MGR. Um, so because I had a common law background in Durham, I undertook the BCL, but the MGR itself is for civil law, um, students who have a background or a legal degree in a [00:02:00] civil law country.
And through, or during my experience, uh, studying law, I also undertook a vacation scheme at, at the time Shearman Sterling, In my final year of my undergraduate degree, and I was lucky enough to secure a training contract with Shearman and Sterling at the time, and now they've merged to become A&O Shearman.
So it's kind of interesting to go through the process of the merger and see how that changes things, but I'll be joining them in 2025. So fall of 2025 as a trainee solicitor.
Ellie: Thank you. Uh, that's really interesting and congratulations on your training contract and I guess now nearly at the completion of the BCL.
Great. Um, so for kind of a follow-up question, I wanted to ask, I suppose it's like slightly two-parted, so if you want to ask it, answer it in two parts, feel free. So firstly, when did you first, um, become interested in law? And then maybe just during your undergrad, when you first became [00:03:00] interested in applying for the BCL?
Elena: Yeah, so yeah, the first part about becoming interested in law. I don't really have a particular point in time because I for some reason as a child, I always just thought law was really interesting I think perhaps the kind of persona and the aura of a lawyer intrigued me quite a lot I didn't really do a lot of reading in law when I was young.
I just kind of I guess I just pictured it as something that I could possibly be interested in. And I think then towards the end of my secondary education, I found the idea of studying something that I had never studied before quite interesting. And so the fact that law was something that I'd never done before, it incorporated a lot of different things that I enjoyed in my secondary education, but in a completely different kind of package.
Um, so I think that was, um, the reason as to why I became interested in law. And then the BCL itself was a bit of a whim decision, [00:04:00] I must admit. Um, I wasn't sure if I was going to secure a training contract in my final year, uh, in my undergrad. And so I decided I would apply to a few postgraduate degrees to continue my legal education if I didn't end up securing a training contract.
In the end, I got both, which was incredible. And I was very torn in the beginning as to whether I was able to then defer my training contract, but luckily my firm agreed to it. And, and it was the most incredible experience to do the BCL. And yeah, so I think it was just during my, my final year, I decided that because my first year was also quite ruined by COVID, I had most of it online.
I also found that having another year of teaching, have another, had another year of academia within would be quite helpful and also nice. Cause I was quite young. And so joining a Joining a firm so quickly after my degree, I think it was a nice, nice break, not a break, but a nice kind of transition to be able [00:05:00] to do another degree before going into practice.
Ellie: Yeah, thank you. I think that, I mean, I think that shows really great, um, like, planning because I know a lot of people panic in that. I'm just about to go into final year and people panic about not having something and then potentially having this year or sometimes even longer gap, um, and being like prepared with something that can just like continually further your, uh, legal education and career.
Um, definitely sounds like, you know, You were sort of really planning in the right way that all the way that we're advised to. Yeah, definitely. So, um, most of our listeners, I guess, are, I mean, maybe like studying law or thinking about studying law. Um, and I mean, some of them are past that stage, but I was sort of thinking it might be helpful if you could kind of explain to our listeners what the BCL actually is.
Elena: Yeah, of course. So the BCL MGR, um, as I mentioned is the postgraduate. taught law degree at Oxford. And the [00:06:00] reason why it's called the BCL for common law students is because it has a, quite a historical background, um, in that it used to be called, um, well, it used to the, the kind of the master's degree in multiple universities across the UK.
So in Cambridge as well, Durham used to be called the Bachelor of Civil Law, um, as opposed to kind of. Canon law, um, which is a bit confusing, but it also had a lot of facets of Roman civil law. So that's why it, it, that's where it kind of gets its civil law name. Um, but it's very confusing because it's not just about civil law and it's definitely not a bachelor.
Um, it is a master's degree, but it's basically the equivalent of, um, Of an LLM, so like Cambridge renamed its program to an LLM quite a few years ago, and Durham as well renamed it to the, to the LLM, um, but it's a nine month taught course, and students get to pick from a range of over 40 choices, and you get to pick four, and [00:07:00] you study those four papers or those four modules for nine months, and then at the end you usually you have, um, an exam, or there's some coursework in between depending on the, the courses that you choose.
Ellie: Thank you. That's um, I was, I felt like what particularly stood out was the kind of choice of different 40 modules kids studying the like undergraduate law at Oxford. Um, you got, I think you, you, we picked like two optionals across the three years. So it sounds really interesting that there's a lot of options. Lot of choice there.
Yeah. It's, yeah. It sounds like a, a really interesting course. And I guess I'm guessing if you get 40 choices potentially by the end, you could end up, depending on what you've chosen with quite a different, um, like expertise. Is that the sort of right idea?
Elena: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I was, I was gonna add that it's, I think.
One of the most, I mean, one of the hardest things is just choosing which ones you want to do, unless you have, so a lot of people that are on the BCL have, uh, already a background in, or they're, they've already worked in [00:08:00] practice, and so for them it's quite, it can be more clear for what they want to do. I mean, what courses they want to choose because they want to specialize more in a particular field.
Whereas for someone like me who came straight from my undergrad, it was really difficult because I had so many different interests. I was still quite interested in all the things that I'd studied in my undergrad. And so narrowing it down to four choices was, it was almost an impossible task essentially.
Um, and. And yeah, as you said that at the end, I mean, most of my friends on the BCL, none of us have the exact same choices and a lot of us don't even have any overlap at all, which is quite nice because then you get to meet so many different people doing a lot of different things and you get to talk about different areas of law and how they kind of overlap or don't overlap and it makes the course even more unique because you have so much variety.
Ellie: Yeah, that does sound like a really nice. Um, learning experience I think, again, to compare with, when everyone's studying the same thing, it becomes less interesting talking about the things when you've all had the, [00:09:00] the same readings. Um, so yeah, it sounds like a really, really interesting and I guess that's very classic.
Um, Oxford in some way that they still, it's like not called an LLM, the same as why they don't have the LLB, I guess they still kind of count for the same. Um, so I guess that's really helpful to let people know. So thank you for explaining that. Um, so kind of the classic question, uh, related to the BCL was what was the application process like?
Um, how long did it take? And I suppose, did you have to make all these decisions relatively soon to choosing option modules and things like that?
Elena: Yeah, so I think for Oxford, it was a January deadline, or even December, I can't remember which one. I think it was January, and so the application itself required a, quite a short kind of personal statement, um, a lot shorter than the one that you'd apply through UCAS, and then, um, it was kind of, I mean, the personal statement was kind of split into two different Parts, I think one was more careers related, like what do you plan to do after the [00:10:00] BCL?
And then another part, short part about why you wanted to study the BCL at Oxford itself. And then you just had to kind of give your, your marks and all of that, your kind of your background studying. Um, and then you needed three references. So I think the application itself was actually quite smooth, it didn't take me that long because I mean you were quite restricted in words as to what you could write in those two, um, in those two parts of kind of explaining why you wanted to study and what was your intention afterwards, or how was the BCL going to kind of help you achieve what you wanted to do afterwards, so in that sense it was just kind of choosing your words wisely and, and just refining it.
Um, but I think the references are probably the most important and making sure that you do get professors that know you quite well and know that you work hard and are kind of ready to go for the BCL. So I think just having those conversations with professors quite early on or just [00:11:00] establishing those links to professors that you like, um, is really important early on.
So, but yeah, overall I think it was, it was quite smooth, especially compared to. UCAS when I remember working on my personal statement for months on end, just trying to correct every word and, and just try out everything so that it really was like perfect in a sense. Although no statement is ever perfect, but perfect to my eyes, I guess, or until I was fed up with reading it over and over again.
Ellie: Yeah, I feel like that's most people's, what they feel about their personal statement once it's done, just like never want to look at it again. Um, yeah, but I think that's interesting having the three references and very helpful to. the kind of signpost that I guess if their application is in January, uh, and you're applying in your third year, that requires kind of some forward thinking and really, yeah, making those connections.
Um, and after, like, after that, did you, was there like an interview that followed this up?
Elena: So no, there was no interview. Um, it was just, I [00:12:00] think it was mid March. I, I heard back about the offer. And then usually you get the offer and then you get allocated to a college, um, afterwards, a few weeks after you get an email.
So it was quite, I would say it was quite a quick turnover. Um, but yeah, there was no interviews like in, in the undergraduate process.
Ellie: Yeah, thanks. I maybe should have, should have already known that, but just because I suppose the interview is such, everyone always talks about it loads. So, um, yeah, that's really interesting.
And I guess also like finding your, was, did you find the college allocate, Allocation quite random. Um, did you could did you give like any indication of college?
Elena: So I I did give an indication Um base it was based on mostly on accommodation Um, so I chose kibble Because they have a really great Kind of postgraduate accommodation site that was that is quite modern.
And they also have a beautiful dining hall. So for me, it was like the perfect fit, because I just wanted kind of good housing and a nice dining hall. And that was enough for me. [00:13:00] And luckily, I did also get Cuba and I was very, very happy about that. But I do know lots of people who applied to particular or they They chose a particular preference, but then got reallocated, um, and that can definitely be quite random.
I would say for postgraduates, um, especially during the BCL, because it's such an intense period, I would say if you have a particular, like, preference in terms of where you want to be located, um, Or if you have a particular preference for accommodation, then I would say go off of that. I mean, that's what I did.
Um, because a lot of the times, even though you might find one of the, one of the particular colleges quite beautiful, you might not end up spending a lot of time within the college itself because your accommodation might be really far away, which is really unfortunate. And I do think it would be nice if the college kind of websites gave the better indication as to where you could end up living.
Um, But yeah, so it can be super random or you can get really lucky and like in my case and you just get the one that you wanted. [00:14:00] Um, but that said also, I was on a waiting list for the Keble accommodation for quite a while and so I was kind of on, on basically on edge the whole time because I was trying to figure out if I needed to apply to private accommodation and so that was a bit stressful.
But, um, yeah. Yeah, I think generally it all, it all, like, figures, it all kind of sorts itself out in the end. Um, and putting a preference for college can be, like, neither good or bad. I also know people who didn't put a preference and then, um, yeah, ended up somewhere that they loved. So it really, yeah, either way, I think it just works out.
Ellie: Yeah, I think that's definitely kind of Most people's overall attitude once they've, they've had colleges, but definitely looking at accommodation and I get I know postgraduate undergraduates tend to live like on site postgraduate can be different and You sort of realize how even if Oxford's a really small city how far away sometimes that can that can be so yeah And yeah, so you've [00:15:00] talked about how you might not always be in your college loads when you're studying.
So I guess my follow up question is, what does um, a kind of on average week look like when you're studying the BCL?
Elena: Yeah, so to be honest, I don't think there's a really an average week. I think generally you have, I mean you have your kind of your teaching that tends to continue every week normally, except for tutorials where you have them on and off kind of throughout the weeks.
Um, so you have certain seminars and lectures on particular days which will go throughout term, but then kind of everything else in between is a bit of chaos, to be completely honest. Um, I think that's just the nature of Oxford, probably in your experience as well, on the undergrad. Like, it's just, there's so many different events happening, there's always kind of speakers or guest lecturers coming, so you kind of have to schedule that in as well, if you want to attend them.
And then there's formals and things that you do in college, um, that can be one off events or, or events that, happen every week. Uh, but in terms of, I'd say this, [00:16:00] like studying the BCL, um, so you have your seminars and lectures that are kind of set. So those are, those are quite helpful to kind of schedule your time around.
And then most of the time, like before and after those, I would usually just try and spend in the library and study and like work on whatever tutorial essay that I had at the time or any kind of readings. Um, yeah, but I guess most days would definitely involve at least kind of one seminar, one lecture and then a lot of kind of spending time reading in the libraries and then usually an evening activity.
So like a formal or college event, um, or just hanging out with friends or cooking with I definitely think every week just looked very different. I mean, when I kind of reflect back, it just, there's so many different things that happen and there's so many different Oxford traditions that you kind of get roped in on, which are really fun.
And those happen, of course, once, I mean, once every term or a few times a term. And so, yeah, the average week definitely looks very different. But I think if [00:17:00] you try to kind of work around your schedule of your lectures and seminars, you can, you can kind of get your reading around, um, those and. Yeah, and manage quite well.
Ellie: Yeah, thank you. I think, I think chaos is definitely the way to describe. It's, it's great. There's so many different like talks and opportunities, but yeah, it gets very kind of, um, yeah, particularly, yeah, I suppose, what do you follow the, um, classic eight, eight week terms, or is it?
Elena: So we generally did, uh, but I, I did have a few kind of ad hoc tutorials that landed in like week nine or week zero.
Um, so it, because the course is taught by, I mean, because some of the courses are, are quite small. So you're very much in connection, like in, in touch with your professors also outside of term time. And so sometimes you arrange for tutorials or. Kind of seminars or catch up seminars outside of term time, so it could be that they're in weeks.
Yeah, weeks nine or 10 [00:18:00] and or week minus one or week zero, um, which is a bit confusing because then it's like, okay, when do you ever get a break, but you don't really, I guess, um, or you just, you just kind of have to work around it. But it is also nice to have that flexibility so that you can work with your professors to see when is the best time for both of you.
Ellie: Yeah, definitely. And I think, I mean, because I think also the eight weeks really contributes a bit to the chaos because, um, it goes really, really quick. And yeah, I suppose also if you start eating into your vacation time, that's, um, not ideal, but yeah, I guess, I guess helpful to, to be able to do, um, a range of things.
And I imagine like the, I suppose it's kind of an expectation a lot of the time, but like the workload and the vacations, I imagine it's still relatively heavy. If that makes sense.
Elena: Yeah, so I would say, generally, your vacation is seen as a time for you to catch up on everything that you didn't manage to go through during the week, the, the eight weeks, because, [00:19:00] yeah, during the vacation, nothing takes place in Oxford, like, it feels like a dead town, um, for students at least, and I think that's the time when, when, like, for us, it was like, okay, now we need to kind of take a break. go through what we did in that term or the previous term, go through the readings that we didn't manage to get through. And sometimes you also have tutorial essays that will be due kind of in the following term. So it really, it gives you more time to just kind of grapple with what you potentially struggled with the in the term before or any kind of content that you wanted to go over again.
And I think it was also super important for revision purposes. So because the content that you had in first term was also going to be assessed in your final exam, just kind of going over everything again and then revising and, and just. Getting your notes in a particular, I mean, it would, it's helpful to get your notes in a format that is then helpful for you later on.
Um, I can't say that I did that, but, um, it is something that I would recommend for anyone because it, it really becomes super [00:20:00] helpful later on when you have maybe like six weeks before your exams to prepare. And if you have those notes in like perfect. Form, um, from your first term, it's a lot easier to just go over that content again.
Ellie: Yeah, definitely. I think I'm the same with work. I can give a lot of like, advice in hindsight that maybe I, I didn't have time to do, but yeah, I think when, um, the, like in the term time, that's just expectation that you're not gonna get all the work done. So when all the fun things and, um, but yeah, that's how, I mean, I feel I'm supposed to view my vacation, but, um, but yes, I suppose.
It links nicely, but the BCL, um, obviously has a, a really kind of big reputation. And I mean, particularly something kind of just when I started studying the undergrad, um, how like the BCL is viewed within Oxford, um, as a, as a master's degree. So I guess like quite a big question would be. How do you find, you've talked a little bit about how chaotic term time is, but [00:21:00] how do you find like that workload and then like, um, non academic study balance?
Is it manageable? And what would you say would be like the most challenging part of studying the BCL?
Elena: Yeah, so for the workload, I would say it's manageable, although it doesn't feel like it at all. Um, I mean, the amount of reading that you get, like, there's, there's no way that you'll ever be able to finish the reading list, um, and I, I think the BCL is known for just having these, like, never ending reading lists that just go on and on, and even, there's even more that's not even on the reading list that could be relevant, um, but I guess that's, that's just the way Ubali is, like, there's always going to be more, um, academia, more literature that you can breathe, that you can, yeah, delve into.
Um, so I think the workload is a lot, for sure, and I think you just, in the beginning, I think it's a matter of just trying to get used to the fact that you're never going to be able to finish the reading list and that you're also, you know, probably not gonna be able to [00:22:00] read through everything that someone else has read through.
And so just trying whatever works best for you and however much that you can do yourself. And just see it as like a personal battle as opposed to like a battle against other people. Because it really is just for you to learn and for you to show your knowledge and to explore those areas of law that you chose.
So yeah, I think overall it is manageable, but it is very chaotic as we mentioned, um, and it does feel like you're never, like you're just never gonna make it or you're never gonna like do as much as you want to, um, and even now when I reflect back like it just it feels like I, I could have done so much more, um, but I think What is also great about Oxford is that there are so many things going on outside of the BCL and I think because we're only there for nine months, it's really important to just get out there and enjoy Oxford because it's your one time that you're there and I think the law is, the law is not going to [00:23:00] disappear anywhere.
You can always study more and I mean, there's, yeah, there's always more that you can do. Oxford is only, or your time in Oxford is limited. And so, um, for me, I found that working hard when I was doing law was important, but then also just being able to kind of recharge and de stress through activities or sports or hanging out with college friends was also really important.
And I was lucky enough to have a really great cohort with, among the BCLM Juror Program, and we did a lot of things together. And I found it really great because we all understood each other. very well because we were all in the same program and we were going through the kind of the same stress of everything.
And so being able to just detox sometimes together was, I found really helpful. Um, other people made a lot of college friends, which is also great. It's also a great way because they're, they may not be studying the same thing. And so just being around people who aren't doing the same thing as you can also be really helpful.
Um, and yeah, Yeah, [00:24:00] so yeah, overall, I think you just have to kind of find your own way of managing it, but it definitely is manageable if you don't stress yourself out too much and just get to grips with the fact that you'll never be able to do the full reading list unless, like, you literally just spend 24 hours in your room studying the whole time.
And I think the BCL is a lot more than that, because it's, it's also meeting amazing people who are on the program, who have tons, like, Incredible different backgrounds, especially those who have worked in practice before and are now coming back into academia. And then, so your second part about the most challenging part, I think in the beginning, the most challenging part was definitely choosing your options.
Um, as we discussed in the beginning, and then after that, I think it was just. Yeah, I'm trying to get through the reading and then also understand it because a lot of the time I found that I had to read it at least two or three times over because I mean the first time you read something you're like oh I have no idea what any of this is about and so it's it's you're coming on it with fresh [00:25:00] eyes and then having to go over it again you're thinking oh why am I I feel like I'm wasting my time going over something that I've already read um as opposed to reading something new that could bring you something better or different and so I think Just trying to keep your time management in check and really trying to fully understand what you're, what you're studying and what you're reading.
And I think that was definitely quite challenging in the beginning when you, again, are reading things for the first time. But then towards the end, it was, it was really rewarding to be able to then read through some of the articles that you read. In, say, in Michael must turn and read them in Trinity term and be like, Oh, I know exactly what they're saying.
And I understand everything. Um, so I think the challenging part is just the perseverance that you need to just continue to push through. And that is. I think that's reflected in every, in every degree, even in undergrad, I think you just have to keep kind of, yeah, just keep pushing through it and just knowing that at the end you'll understand it and you just have to kind of [00:26:00] keep, yeah, keep chipping away essentially at, at, like, at the law and what you're reading and the topics that you're, that you're going over.
Ellie: Yeah, definitely. Sounds like such a large part of, um, the ability to study the BCL is almost having the confidence to be like, realistically, this is not a reading list that is made to be, you know, complete, finished and completed. And, uh, realistically, you know, I'm not going to always feel like I've done everything I can, because I think everyone, if they haven't finished the list, they just, it feels incomplete, even though that's the thing.
So yeah, so much of it, it's like almost, Maintaining that calm to a certain extent. Obviously, there's always stressful moments and having that perseverance. Um, so it's really helpful kind of hearing this, this side that isn't just, oh, you have to be able to like understand the law, kind of the other important parts of, of studying and I guess.
Following that, um, this is quite a sort of big question, uh, but like what skills and attributes do you think, I guess, are essential for [00:27:00] aspiring lawyers, who I think the majority of BCL students are, or they're already lawyers, um, and I guess also like relating that what skills are super essential for the BCL.
Um, would be the two questions.
Elena: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it is a big question. I think, I mean, every lawyer has their own like personal attributes that they bring as well. Um, but I guess there are quite a few like common, common skills that, that I think are essential, which I mean, I think communication is definitely one of the most important.
I mean, written and oral both super important. Um, I mean, being able to advise your clients in future if you are in legal practice or if you stay in academia to be able to. To get across your ideas in writing is also very important and all of our professors, even the BCL, always tell us to stop using such flowery language and just get to the point, um, which I always find a bit frustrating because when I read articles I feel like they're all flowery language as well, so.
It's always a bit like condescending in a sense, but I think on, I think in a degree, [00:28:00] it is helpful to be able to just get your ideas across in the most simple way. Um, because you are trying to just explain things or you're trying to show your knowledge. And so sometimes using flowery language can be a bit confusing.
Um, I don't know if you've had that in your experience as well. Um, And yeah, I think, as mentioned before, I think perseverance is, is super important because you'll get into times where you just feel like you're not getting anywhere or you've read this sentence 30 times and you still don't know what it means.
Um, so I think just being able to persevere through that and just knowing that you'll get through it, um, and that if you just keep putting, you know, just keep, yeah, chipping away at it, that you'll, you'll get there in the end. Um, yeah, I think. I mean, there's so many other, other skills that I'm trying to think about, but I mean, confidence is also very important.
I think, um, especially when you're, when you are dealing with clients, um, being able to show that, that, you know, that, you know, the law and that you're confident in helping them in whatever [00:29:00] issue or problem that they're facing. facing. Um, yeah, but I think one of the most important ones is passion. Um, just passion for the law or passion for whatever topic or area of law that, that you're super interested in, because in the end, what carries you is your interest in your passion for, for the topic and the area.
And especially in the BCL, I found that those courses in which I was Particularly interested in, uh, I found more engaging and I found more enjoyable, especially when I was doing lots of readings and I felt like it was just going on and on forever. And I just kept reading about the same thing over and over again.
But if it's more engaging and you have a passion for it, and you're super interested in it, it just makes it so much easier. Um, and I think that's applicable in, in, in any career, in any job that you, that you decide to pursue you just having a passion for it makes everything a lot easier. And that said, I think it is difficult to find what you're passionate about.
Um, I struggle with it, even now, I still don't really know in what area I want to practice. But I think just pursuing [00:30:00] what you find interesting, um, is fine. Especially in the start, you just want to expose yourself to as much as you can. Um, and VCL is great for that, because you do, you get to choose. From a variety of really rogue options or not rogue, but like just a complete variety.
I mean, you have private law options, you have public law options, you have kind of EU cross border. I mean, there's just so many different more like historical options. So it really gives every student and I like. It kind of, it gives every student the, I don't know, the scope to be able to choose what they want to pursue further and it can be a challenge as well.
Um, but it, it's a great opportunity to further your knowledge and to open your doors to different areas of law that maybe you hadn't known before.
Ellie: Yeah, definitely, I think. And this is all taking me like a while to realize, but it's a lot easier to kind of get through readings if you're really passionate and interested in what you're going to be reading.
Um, but no, I also completely agree on the, yeah, like obviously you get a lot of comments [00:31:00] on even on undergrad essays, like, you know, write more concisely and just kind of put forward your point. And then sometimes I'm reading an article and I'm like, Get to your point, you know, what are you trying to say?
So, yeah, I think it's just the law student experience, but, um, thank you. That that's really, really helpful. And we kind of discussed so much, you know, the sort of general important BCL information and so much about your personal experience of it. So to kind of finish it off, um, and I suppose it relates quite well to skills and an application, but, um, do you have any kind of main advice to, to listeners who might've listened to, you know, to this episode to this point and are now considering or already aspiring to study the BCL.
Elena: Yeah, I mean, I would say just continue with your studies, um, as you have throughout your degree and yeah, just try to enjoy your degree as much as you can, as opposed to stressing about, you know, making the marks that you need for the BCL or, um, Yeah, I mean, there's so [00:32:00] many amazing programs out there, and I know that the BCL is known as this great program, which it really is, um, but I also think that it's, I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be for everyone.
I mean, there's, it's quite a broad degree as well, and so if you have a particular specialism that you already know you want to do, um, there's also other great postgraduate degrees out there, um, um, I would say I didn't really know much about the BCL until my final year. Um, and so I didn't really think about it too much, but I would say, yeah, just try and enjoy your undergrad as much as you can and work hard at, at really just engaging with the law.
And make those connections with those professors so that if it does come to the time where you want to apply that you have those, those links with your professors who are willing to write, to write references for you. Um, and a lot of, I mean a lot of people come back to the BCL after they've worked in legal practice as well, and I found that was quite prevalent.
Among the BCL MGR cohort is [00:33:00] that people work for five to ten years and then they come back to do the BCL. So I would also say that don't be disheartened if, if say you apply and you don't get an offer this time around. There's, there's no way, I mean, there's always a chance that you might get one later on.
Um, and yeah, I think that there's, there's no particular one way to do it. Um, and the BCL is, is always there. You can always apply whenever you want to. Um, and Yeah, I would just, yeah, I think I would just, I would just think about exactly what it is you want to, like, make out of the BCL as well, um, because it is one year, which is super intense, but also super rewarding, and I think being able to kind of determine where in your life you want to place it, especially if you really want to do and you know you want to do it.
Um, I kind of had this dilemma where I was like, do I do it now straight after my undergrad when I'm not really specialized in an area of law yet, but I do know that I want to continue law and it would be great to continue law and academia for another [00:34:00] year. Um, but then I was like, Oh, but I could, you know, go work for a while and then come back and do the BCL hopefully.
Um, but that is not to say that it's a given that I would get another offer in like five years time. Um, So yeah, I think just also allowing yourself to think about what it is that you want to get out of the BCCL, um, is super important because it is a very intense year and it's super enjoyable as well, but it can put you into kind of like tough times, especially towards the end when you're just grinding for, for those exams.
Um, but yeah, all in all, I think just, Try your hardest, enjoy your undergrad or your studies before it, um, and don't see it as like the end goal because there's always, there's always so many other opportunities as well.
Ellie: Yeah, perfect. Thank you. Thank you so much. That sounds like I mean, fantastic advice.
You don't want to kind of tunnel vision on this. There's one goal that I guess it's a highly competitive process. And also, um, it doesn't, it's not necessarily the kind of thing that you have to do once finishing your undergrad. There's lots of different options and [00:35:00] also different, um, like times in your life where it may be more appropriate.
So thank you very much. And thank you so much for coming on the podcast and agreeing to be interviewed.
Elena: Thank you so much for having me.
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